1. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that the NXS17 templates and viewers have been released!

    Grab them HERE
  2. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that besides the NXS17 templates and viewers, now we have released the NXS17 Mod as well!

    Grab the latest files HERE
  3. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that we are trying out a new feature at SRD. Your feedback is needed!

    Read more about the chatbox HERE
  4. Hello Guest,

    We are gauging interest in starting an online racing league.

    Please take a moment and give your vote HERE. Thanks!

Speaker Pelosi announces formal House Impeachment Inquiry of the President

Discussion in 'Politics/Religion' started by Darren Ingram, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. JNieder51188

    JNieder51188 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    It is pretty entertaining. Its pretty bad that now its being shown that the whistleblower in the complaint claims that its all second hand knowledge from members of the White House and things they saw in the media. Seriously, Congress is going to stop basic legislating to do impeachment on secondhand knowledge? That's just stupid.
     
  2. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    They don't want to legislate, that much was established in 2018, where they celebrated taking the House with immediate calls for impeachment right then. No talk of working on infrastructure, the national debt (something I still berate President Trump about, he's adding to that problem, not directly addressing it), VA healthcare being absolute crap (AOC thinks it's amazing yet has NEVER had to use it...), or the monopolistic practices of social media giants. Nope. Gotta impeach. Because Green New Deal was laughed right out, and since then, there has been nothing of substance or value coming out of the House. Hell, people had to fight like hell to take care of 9-11 victims and surviving families. That's repugnant.

    If you can't beat him, impeach him. That's my opinion on the matter.

    But I digress, lets give "due process" its day (although it being fair is questionable), and try to remember: innocent until proven guilty.
     
  3. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    Anyone else find it interesting that Swalwell (Mr. 'I wanna nuke US people that don't obey the federal government') isn't letting the DNI answer questions fully and is demanding 2 dimensional answers without context?
    Or that Adam Schiff misconstrued the wording of the transcript and got called out, to the point of having to state that his statement was in 'parody'?

    Or even that the 'clock' that governs time is broken sometimes and not others??

    This whole 'hearing' is a mess lol
     
  4. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    The House has passed plenty of substance filled bills since the Dems took a majority. Election reform and security, veterans issues, lower drug prices, protecting preexisting conditions, hell even yesterday legislation regarding the cannabis industry and banking have all been passed in the House. The bills aren’t even being brought up to a vote because Mitch McConnell wouldn’t dare let that happen.

    Well, it’s been overwhelmingly Senate Republicans that have fought against the VCF and continuing it, but yeah, Dems don’t wanna legislate.




    I also laugh at anyone who thinks Trump is being treated unfairly. Did we all forget the shit that Obama put up with for eight years, especially his first term? Lol.
     
    halfwayglad and EarnhardtFan like this.
  5. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    Did you look at some of those bills? There were a LOT of underline sub policies that went along with it, including things like ensuring abortion rights for illegal immigrants, massive gun legislation changes, financing certain foreign programs, etc etc. Regardless of what the 'header' of the bill may have been, I'm glad they died in the Senate with some of the attached crap they tried to roll with.


    They fought against the unmitigated expansion. And yes, Dems don't want to legislate because, as my previous point shows, they like to attach a lot of misc. crap into the bills, and have refused revised bills that would have eliminated those extra details.

    I'm willing to accept that, to be frank, Congress as a whole, for a decade+, have done very little given the overall amount of time they spend (and the money they spend), regardless of party. That's a problem.



    Every president deals with detractors. My point is I have never seen such a concerted effort by the majority of the media (who seem to be in lockstep with specific government officials), which you have to admit is pretty wild when they all start spewing IDENTICAL talking points and key words/phrases within a hour of a story break. That level of coordination would make some military factions jealous lol
     
    MrDude68 likes this.
  6. mtblillie

    mtblillie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    912
    This isn't a Democrat problem, this is a bureaucracy problem that has been going on longer than either of us have been alive.


    Again, this isn't a Democrat problem. This is a "I'm a member of party x and I don't president of party z but I am willing to give a chance to the president of party x. And this is quickly where this conversation is heading. The simple fact is people see what they want to see. They will ignore or mildly criticize the bad things their party does, and them condemn the other side for every little damn thing. I saw it happen with Bush Sr, I saw it happen with Clinton, I saw it happen with Bush Jr, I saw it happen with Obama, and now I am seeing it happen with Trump. I will see it with the next president, and the president after that, and the president after that. I will see people that like their parties president complain that they get too much criticism over nothing and then turn right the fuck around and criticize every little thing about a president of the opposite party. The thing is, people think they are being "moderate," or using "common sense," but pretty much everyone I know acts the same way, and once again I see it here. I remember people I have a lot of respect for saying things like "impeach the monkey" when Obama was in office, but those same people can't be bothered to hold Trump accountable for his actions. Both sides are Equally guilty of the same things, but all anyone wants to do is point a finger at each other. "It is their responsibility for what goes wrong, don't look at me."
     
    nascarfreak88 and Chevellion like this.
  7. Chevellion

    Chevellion Former SRD Cup League Director

    Messages:
    8,502
    Likes Received:
    4,123
    No one seems willing to compromise, which is exactly what should happen in a democratically elected government. No one party should ever expect to get every single thing they want, especially when there are competing interests. My biggest concern with the current state of things is a complete unwillingness to recognize - or act upon - factual information, simply because it doesn't fit the constructed narrative of the party.

    America's political landscape has become too much like a pro sports rivalry than a controlled effort to support the populace. There's more effort (and interest) put towards "winning" than there is actually solving problems that require attention.
     
    canadienhits likes this.
  8. nascarfreak88

    nascarfreak88 Sarcasmus pessimus

    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Oh dear, cannonball into the deep dark abyss, here I come.

    So, the Demos have already screwed this up, because of course they have. Of the litany of crimes Trump has committed, they decided to focus on this one. Yes, oppo research with a foreign government is bad. But its not like the Demos don't do it too. They're just better at hiding it.

    There are only three possible outcomes:
    1) The inquiry doesn't even lead to a vote in the House, particularly if the Demos realize they don't have nearly enough votes for it to pass, which is very possible.
    2) The House votes but it fails. The Demos see they might have enough votes but it winds up dying by a slim margin. Again, very possible.
    3) The vote to impeach passes in the House, but dies on the Senate floor. Very possible, no brainer.

    What definitely ISN'T going to happen is that it passes in both houses of Congress and Trump is removed. There's roughly a -25% chance that happens. A two-thirds vote in the Senate would be needed. So Demos would need to rake in about 20 Repub votes in their favor, whilst not having everyone in their own party guaranteed to vote in favor of impeachment. So y'all chill, it ain't happening.

    I think the Demos have shot themselves in the foot a bit in that in all likelihood this process will wind up as it did in the case of Bill Clinton. Impeachment died in the Senate and his approval ratings went up. So I don't get why or how they could do this and feel tough on Trump if it will ultimately help him. I can sympathize with those who want to impeach as a matter of principle, but its a pretty naive move with which I don't agree.

    What I would agree on right this second (and which I think has a stronger case) is if the Demos wanted to come out and impeach on the grounds of the Emoluments Clause and the genocide in Yemen. Trump has taken in millions of dollars through his hotels from Saudi Arabia. As a result of this personal enrichment, Trump not only gave them tremendous weapons deals, but also vetoed the War Powers Act, which would have stopped the US aiding the Saudis genocide of Yemenis (through, of course, arming and funding). Carter had to sell his peanut farm because people feared that it could be an avenue for foreign influence. The fact that this hasn't applied to Trump is mental. Though, not surprising. The Demos aren't really bothered by what is happening in Yemen and think that the "strategic alliance" with Saudi Arabia is important. But they're also corrupt too (look no further than the Clinton Foundation taking money from all sorts of governments, including Saudi Arabia). So they clearly don't want to go down the rabbit hole when Repubs want to impeach one of their guys on the same grounds in the future.

    I'd be absolutely down for that Emoluments Clause argument. Though there's still zero percent chance of getting through the Senate, at least the argument is better and people might sympathize that Trump is helping a foreign nation commit war crimes as a quid pro quo. The Ukraine deal probably won't land because the Demos don't have a counternarrative. In fact, Repubs have a pretty good rebuttal. Biden's son was getting paid $50k a month from a Ukrainian natural gas firm. Shockingly enough, he had no experience in the field of energy. That's not nothing (yes, I'm talking to you media). That's buying influence, no question about it. Members of the Biden family also have become lobbyists, hedge funders, one getting wealthy in Iraq while Biden was overseeing the operation in Iraq. So yes, Biden is massively corrupt as well. Not to mention Hillary did the exact same thing in 2016 with the exact same government (re: Paul Manafort). I'm sorry, but you're not going to sell that Ukraine argument Demos, not when you're corrupted by money as well and doing the exact same thing. It is the worst possible reason to go after Trump.

    Not too many Americans supported impeachment before this whole deal. I'm itching to see what the polls would be now. I'd be glad if there's an uptick in support - at least that gives some indication that the Demos aren't screwing this up as much as I think they are. I want Trump out of office as soon as possible, and I'm pretty concerned that this whole line of inquiry is only going to help him as the election draws closer. It is massively irritating that when Trump attacks a fellow political elite, all hell breaks loose and everyone jumps on the impeachment train asap. But when he's starving Yemen and aiding in their genocide, sanctioning medicine going into Iran and in the process killing people in a show of economic war, seizing shipments of food to Venezuela as they're starving, its nothing but crickets.
     
    mtblillie likes this.
  9. canadienhits

    canadienhits The Dominator, Cup champ.

    Messages:
    12,966
    Likes Received:
    7,814
    Kyle, you hit the nail on the head. I'm the old timer here and remember when there were true statesmen who were able to compromise to get things done. Now it's just a grab, and nothing gets done.
     
    Chevellion and mtblillie like this.
  10. sadlerfan21

    sadlerfan21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    People wonder why the right gets so little in the way of actual discourse. Complaining about people that have slightly different viewpoints from within the same ideology, that they are about for their own good. All while going on about how they should have the freedoms and not politicians even though there are really no laws to stop that.

    Exhibit A.
     
    EarnhardtFan and Chevellion like this.
  11. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    The first Congressional Republican has come out in favor of the impeachment inquiry (not counting Justin Amash since he has left the GOP). Mark Amodei, 4 term congressman from Nevada and also the chair of Trump’s re-election campaign in Nevada.


    Interesting to see if this is a “breaking of the dam” and more and more start coming out in favor of the inquiry.
     
  12. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    I've been watching closely past couple of days.

    I'm in favor, if we are gonna do it (which it's obvious we are), then let's do it. Since we know Congress isn't going to get any work done until at LEAST 2020, why not fill the time void with this.

    Because I read up on what happens throughout this process. And I cannot WAIT until the house votes to move forward with impeachment. That takes a lot of legal shackles off.
    ANYONE can be called to testify, compelled to testify, in matters that are germane, and NOT.
    And the President's lawyers have full power to either allow or block testimony that THEY choose.

    "I'd like to call former President Barack Obama forward"
    "I'd like to call former Vice President Joe Biden forward"
    .... continue with that, until just about every politician/cabinet member with shady dealings are compelled to testify in any given matter.

    I don't think "it depends on what the definition of 'is', is" would save some of them.

    What this will do is unlock the flood gates. It's still HIGHLY unlikely that the Senate votes to convict (and if they don't, 2020 is a LOCK). BUT, if, SOMEHOW, it goes south....a lot of people are possibly going down with him. It'll have the same effect as a street sweeper cleaning a street in the projects: removing large quantities of trash.

    So be it. Let's do it! *grabs popcorn*

    EDIT: In the meantime.... do recall that the burden of proof lies with whatever special counsel is appointed. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

    And there are several facts that would cast a lot of doubt on the very nature of the impeachment proceeding.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    mtblillie likes this.
  13. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    Case in point from my previous post:

    There's an Act (bloody hell if I remember the name at the moment, Clinton Era document), that allows for the President to contact foreign leaders when dealing with potential corruption matters, which supersedes the narrative of 'against a political opponent' (which in itself is not illegal, improper perhaps, but we all know this has been done without a single hearing for decades).

    Moving the files/transcripts: can be explained given the frequency of leaks of sensitive information coming out of the White House (which is pretty spectacular to be honest); to avoid leaks, higher security was applied. That's easy. It would be immensely difficult to prove otherwise.

    Whistleblower's rights are covered in FIRST HAND knowledge; there's an investigation as to why the rules were changed very recently... that should raise an eyebrow or two as to the nature of the complaint. Which would also bring into legal question, if the whistleblower has 2nd hand knowledge and was not cleared for handling of information on that level, then Executive Privilege would likely apply, would could legally nullify this entire case as something akin to 'fruit of the poisonous tree', as the knowledge and information that is central to this was obtained in an other-than-legal-manner.

    There has to be provable 'quid pro quo'... and if you actually READ the transcribed document, that case is shaky at best. Sorry, but saying 'do me a favor' (in regards to the cybersecurity firm) isn't quid pro quo.

    But the house WILL likely move for impeachment. And on the legal level it will most likely fail to show anything illegal beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    The fallout from this I'm fairly certain will not be insignificant.

    I'm taking more an interest in this now from a legal perspective; I took a lot of legal/criminal classes, and did a lot of work within JAG offices, stuff like this is fascinating.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  14. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    I'm not sure where this line of thinking comes from. Clinton wasn't removed from office and the Republicans won (well...) the presidency in the next election.
     
  15. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    It's the impeachment movement entirely.

    Also, curious.... 2 lengthy posts and that was it? lol
     
  16. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    I mean, what good will it do. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. No point in spending time back and forth until we get more facts lmao.
     
    MrDude68, mtblillie and RacerXero84 like this.
  17. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    That's actually a fair assessment lol

    But like I said, this is becoming interesting from a purely legal standpoint (we have our respective bias), the details and procedural matters, as well as dissecting the 'evidence' is where I'm going.

    Pretty sure we can all more or less agree the Senate won't convict as it stands right now, but impeachment is going to happen regardless. Might as well use this as an opportunity to learn and appraise the legal system at work.
     
    mtblillie and Darren Ingram like this.
  18. MattyO

    MattyO Well-Known Member Admin

    Messages:
    8,449
    Likes Received:
    12,126
    I think it's time for another President. I've finally had enough of him. I can't take the poor decision making he's doing lately. It's indefensible honestly.

    I don't want an impeachment. Let's just vote him out next election. I'm just fucking over it already. The economy is rolling, and that's why I voted for him. But there's more to my morality than the economy. It's time he goes.
     
    Tetronix, theusar, mtblillie and 2 others like this.
  19. GambitJon

    GambitJon #VeganRush

    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    874
    I’m sick of seeing political threads in a fucken sim racing forms. But hey you hardly hear me complain.
     
    Skyline likes this.
  20. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    The longer and longer this goes on, the more shady this whole thing looks by Trump and the Trump administration. Repeatedly going out and telling the world your crimes on the White House lawn lmao.



    No one made you click this thread.
     

Share This Page