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Discussion in 'General Community Discussion' started by MattyO, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. J.R.Franklin

    J.R.Franklin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I guess I'm a little late to the party. I just watched his video and I feel the need to weigh in with my 2 cents worth.

    Is there is a more clueless and unintelligent individual out there? He demonstrates this by his inability to string together a few sentences without having to drop a number of F bombs along the way. Learn to speak the English language without using profanity for crying out loud. Secondly, this guy is obviously spending way too much of his life on NR2003 to get THIS upset about a 15 year old video game/hobby. If you want/need updated tracks so much, do something about it... go out and learn how to do it and make your own updates. That's what the rest of us had to do. See how long it actually takes for yourself. But seriously, go outside, get some fresh air, enjoy the sunshine, make some friends along the way and get some perspective in your life, bud. Sheesh! There's way more to life than NR2003 man. :rolleyes:

    So, here is someone who has no clue whatsoever what it takes to build a quality track for NR2003. Track makers know. We know first hand the vast volume of time and skills required to make a good quality track. There are so many elements to it and it requires a wide ranging group of skills. It is very hard to due it right and that's why there are so few of us left that do track work anymore. I have been involved with track editing starting back in the NR1999 days... over 20 years. I have worked with a handful of the best, most knowledgeable and talented people in the track editing community. People like Ian Smythe (aka Smiffsden), Wayne "Bowtie" Anderson, Carl "Riviera71" Sundberg, SteveB, Sean and Freddie and a few others. Our body of work over the years speaks for itself. When you download a "PST" or "SDT" track or see our names in the credits of any other track, you can pretty much rest assured that you are getting a track of high quality that has been thoroughly tested and vetted to be bug-free.

    A quality track takes months to make. In most cases, it takes over a year. Hell, I've worked on projects that took multiple years to complete. I can't even estimate the hours I've spent on each project, but I can tell you it's in the hundreds, if not thousands... and that's just MY contribution to a specific track project. The others I work with also spend countless hours on the parts they are responsible for. For instance, I'm currently working on updating Myrtle Beach Speedway. I started working on it in January of this year. I've spent several hours texturing just ONE object to get it to look as close to it's real life counterpart as possible. Most of our PST and SDT projects have numerous such objects. Do the math and you'll quickly understand why doing quality track work takes so long.

    I make these points so you can understand the idea that when we spend THAT kind of time, it can get a little annoying, to say the least, when someone like this guy says he's going to just take our work, not ask for any permission, make a few changes, call it his own and be the big "hero" of the NR2003 sim community.

    Folks, here's the bottom line... I do track work for NR2003 as a fun hobby. I LOVE doing it. I work very hard to turn out high quality work and I love sharing it with the community. So do the guys I've worked with. There isn't one thing this guy said or could say that would ever deter me from making tracks and sharing them with you. Does it annoy the crap out of me when I see stuff that me, Ian, Wayne, Carl and Ben Althen have spent a lot of time and effort on appear in other people's tracks without them asking us for permission to use them first? Hell yeah! What can we do? Sue them? Honestly, there's not a damned thing we can do about it. But for people who don't feel that they need to ask permission or acknowledge the people in this community who have busted their butts to provide good quality content to the other members of this community "FOR FREE", it just speaks to their lack of integrity, respect and common courtesy. And unfortunately, there is an element of our society in general and our little sim community where these qualities are lacking.

    I'll end with this. I'm retired and can spend a ton of time doing track work for NR2003... and sometimes I do. But, I also love to travel, play lots of golf and spend time with family and friends. NR2003 has been a GIFT to me and all of us who love it, but it's not supposed to be all encompassing. It's all about having BALANCE in our lives folks. The guy in the video desperately needs some balance in his (along with some respect and common courtesy). :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    Devin41, NascarMan32, bowtie and 19 others like this.
  2. halfwayglad

    halfwayglad Well-Known Member

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    This is pretty much my read on things, plus what JR mentioned about the time and effort it takes to make a good track. I don't lose anything from not releasing future work. I still get to enjoy them :) And if I don't tease them, no one is the wiser.

    EDIT: I'll add to this that we'll continue to create the type of community we want and expect of each other. If the video hadn't been posted, I bet most of us wouldn't have even noticed. Sometimes its best not to feed the trolls.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  3. crazyboy335

    crazyboy335 Do I Wanna Know?

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    The way I see it, if they're bitching about not getting anything to use, I can make sure they don't get anything at all from my end. I may have overreacted this morning, but to clamor for all the content that you don't have just because it's a free game is asinine.

    This certainly deters me from making any attempt at track making again, because I know people like this are waiting to jump all over my work, despite making fuckall in the first place. I can't believe people can act this entitled and demanding over a free video game.
     
    joeykraus19, dalejr88rox and Tetronix like this.
  4. Tetronix

    Tetronix Winner of Most Pepsi Consumed in a Year

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    The guy is a douchebag, I raced with him in the one OMRA race before I was kicked out, and I knew he was a real POS. I learned who he was after when he helped someone out with an issue and said it was his video - uploaded by “NewWorld”.

    Didn’t really think he’d do this but it’s not surprising anyways.
     
  5. dalejr88rox

    dalejr88rox Video editor, Meme Police, and certified B.A.M.F.

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    You realize league edits are private because they didn't make the track, right? I created over a dozen rallycross edits for my league and none of them will ever be released because they're not my tracks. That's what you don't get. Sharing may be caring, but it's not sharing it you're stealing people's shit and uploading it without their permission
     
  6. D0rant

    D0rant Well-Known Member

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    How morally right is it to take someone else's work and use it then? You are in that case a total hypocrite my friend. Because you're still taking someone's work, making an edit and sharing it with people. Just in this case the group of people are in the "exclusive" club. You have just broken your own argument. You did exactly the same thing but instead of sharing it with say a 1000 people you shared it with 30. It's still wrong, or will you attempt to argue it is not? It's okay to steal as long as the spoils are shared with a few people and not a hundred or a thousand. Yes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    joeykraus19 likes this.
  7. Tetronix

    Tetronix Winner of Most Pepsi Consumed in a Year

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    He's not releasing it for the public to use, like Brandon / NewWorld is - that's the difference. With a league, you know nobody's gonna go and upload it to NNR or Stunod and claim it their own or say it's the league owner's. It's a strict group, not just anyone and everyone.
     
    dalejr88rox likes this.
  8. D0rant

    D0rant Well-Known Member

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    And yet they take work without permission, edit it and use the track among themselves. The track that is immoral to use by your own accounts. Who cares if it is 50 people who use it or 5000? What you are saying is that it's okay to steal a movie illegally so you and your buddies can watch it but god forbid you share it with more people. Both things are immoral to begin with. One may be worse than other but two wrongs don't make a right. What about league edits makes you think somehow different laws and morality apply to them?

    P.S. NewWorld didn't claim his edit of the Las Vegas 2018 track on Stunod was his only. He gave proper credit. That edit of the first corner bumps that was merely 3-4mb in size or so was deleted hours after. I saw it on the website, it wasn't even an "edit" it was an "addon".
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    joeykraus19 likes this.
  9. David Robb

    David Robb Well-Known Member

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    That's still a weak justification. You're still sharing it with other people, that doesn't change regardless the circumstances. It also doesn't solve the problem about people who just lurk within leagues to take these tracks. However, being that they're mostly ini/AI edits and adjustments I don't see the point in sharing with other people. Such things are easily adjusted independently to anyone's liking, so anyone who's demanding those things really is just a lazy ass.

    Edit: This goes for EXEs as well. There are plenty of tutorials on how to adjust the values and its a fairly simple process. Don't be demanding something that can be easily done yourself in like 5 minutes. That's just scummy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    thefaeway, joeykraus19 and D0rant like this.
  10. Tetronix

    Tetronix Winner of Most Pepsi Consumed in a Year

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    A movie and an NR2003 track are completely different, but I see your point. I don't know very much about the whole "Vegas 2018 edit" stunt he pulled. Give credit where it's due but as long as you're not putting an edited version (no matter how different) up for public download there isn't an issue.

    Say I made a track, I wouldn't mind having edits done to it if it was just for personal or league (off/online) use, but if it came to publicly redistributing it on a forum for everyone without my permission, that's where I'd draw the line.

    I'm looking at this from an actual online league point of view. I know there are league owners that actually add more into them for racing-wise. I've never seen the problem of people just "lurking around" so they could "steal the tracks", but I'm never around the online community nor run my own league. Just to use an example - let's go back to Matt's statement. He makes rallycross tracks. Most of them are just the old tracks whose creators are no longer around the NR2003 community, or from old vanilla tracks that he edits.

    Also, nobody is "demanding" anything, so I'm not too sure what you mean by that statement.
     
  11. David Robb

    David Robb Well-Known Member

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    Those who lurk tend to be those who join but never do anything else. They just lie there, on the members list, never responding to any posts, never liking anything, nothing. The only thing they come for are: EXEs, INIs, Free Cars, and Tracks.
    As for those who demand, I've just seen people be rather "loud" about wanting something basic like INIs and EXEs. Either they're dumb or lazy.
     
    joeykraus19 likes this.
  12. dalejr88rox

    dalejr88rox Video editor, Meme Police, and certified B.A.M.F.

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    Because it's different. I'm not publicly releasing it. Go to the store and buy a cd, and record your own vocals over it. You can share it with your friends, but you can't release it to the public. It's the same thing
     
    Tetronix and CJL5 like this.
  13. dalejr88rox

    dalejr88rox Video editor, Meme Police, and certified B.A.M.F.

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    I'll put it this way. Lets take this from the perspective that even if you do think league edits should be publicly released, we're just back to the point that they're not obligated to. If they can make an edit, so can you
     
  14. D0rant

    D0rant Well-Known Member

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    Stealing is is stealing, man. If you think it's okay to share it with your pals but not the rest of the people then you're being wrong and can't see your own hypocrisy. Technically the moment you share it with you friends, league members etc. you are spreading an illegally edited track without permission among people. There's no "public" numbers in terms of law. If you start sharing it is already going "Public" because you're giving it to people (exclusively or not). Whether you steal something and only give it to your 5-6 friends or whether you give it to 50-60 people makes no difference because that very moment you are starting to spread a track that wasn't made by you, you didn't ask for permission to edit and edited it by adding some minor changes (usually) AND worst of all gave it a League stamp like say "FTF Texas" or "SRA Texas" whatever. I know sometimes it's hard to see your own hypocrisy in things and admit that what you've been doing is actually wrong as well but surely use logic and see reason. Nobody gave a permanent permission to leagues to make their own edits of existing tracks whether they intend to use it for 50 people or 5000. Fact is it's being used and that's wrong.
     
    joeykraus19 likes this.
  15. D0rant

    D0rant Well-Known Member

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    I never said what he's doing is right. It's morally wrong. However, his actions are a reaction to what's been brewing for years and was willfully ignored. If what he is doing right now is wrong then what you guys (those who made and shared league edits exclusively) did for years was also wrong. You reap what you sow. I think both sides are wrong and for one side to be infuriated with the other like you guys are is pretty hilarious to watch honestly because what people like you did is what causing these actions from Brandon to begin with. You basically created him, now you're angry at him for what? For reacting to your own actions that were wrong in the first place?
     
  16. Tetronix

    Tetronix Winner of Most Pepsi Consumed in a Year

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    We didn't create him. He created himself, and with how he speaks and acts out towards others, I don't think it's right to throw anyone under the bus. I don't know him very well but I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with this grand idea of his all by himself.
     
    BrendonH12, dalejr88rox and Ceafus 88 like this.
  17. Spike

    Spike Well-Known Member

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    Love his reply to Wild Kustoms & Cars lmao :D what a jackass.
     
  18. Saan Anguish

    Saan Anguish Inflictor of Pain

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    I get your points, but the difference with us is that we're not stealing anything. When an edit is made, we don't claim anything as our own. I don't even think we rename the tracks. We simply modify small portions to make the track more suitable for league racing, and that's it. While we are sharing it among our league members, we are not doing so with any intention to redistribute to the general public (outside of our group) or market as our own creation out of respect to the original track makers. Is it wrong to make an edit and share it with a small group of people privately? Sure, that could be debated - but I think the real issue lies with those who take these steps and then upload the files to a public server claiming it as their own work.
     
  19. dalejr88rox

    dalejr88rox Video editor, Meme Police, and certified B.A.M.F.

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    Lol alright man. Whatever you say

    Track makers and editors don't owe anyone anything, like its been said a thousand times in here. If somebody makes something and wishes to not release it, then its their jurisdiction. You're completely avoiding that point. No track makers made this situation, a dumbass with a shitty attitude who thinks he should get everything he wants unconditionally did
     
  20. D0rant

    D0rant Well-Known Member

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    Everything I've seen from him so far has been credited accordingly and I haven't heard of him claiming he made the tracks. Where are you guys finding this info? The only edit he made I saw which was uploaded yesterday on Stunod was an addon he did for a Las Vegas 18TE track and he stated it as an addon that was going to improve the track he didn't make. Only wrong thing he did was not asking for permission as apparently the creator got mad at him for adding a few bumps in turn 1 to make it more accurate. He didn't claim the track was his though.
     
    joeykraus19 likes this.

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